The Total Sound Of The Undergound

Lelahel Metal

In this interview, delve into the captivating world of Realma, a half-Serbian, half-Chinese artist, as she unveils her unique audiovisual universe, Realmaverse.

1. The title of your latest single, "Down the Railway Spine," is intriguing. The term 'railway spine' has historical significance related to early forms of PTSD. Can you share the inspiration behind the title and its connection to the song's theme of trauma and PTSD? How does this historical context influence the narrative of your ongoing journey confronting mental health symptoms, and why did you choose it as the title?

I wrote this song battling trauma and PTSD myself, after a police mishandling in 2020 during the start of the lockdown. I just felt a bit more at ease while researching about the condition I was going through, including its history. As such, the title of the song stems from the nineteenth-century term 'railway spine', when doctors encountered unexplainable symptoms experienced by passengers involved in railroad accidents - unaware it was an early form of PTSD. While some dismissed it as hysteria, other doctors claimed its cause was a physical whiplash from the impact of trains crashing. It took a whole cycle of terms like soldier’s heart, irritable heart, shell shock, battle fatigue, combat stress reaction, anxiety reaction and more, before doctors finally reached the diagnosis in 1980 - known today as “post-traumatic stress disorder”. Despite all other terms I've encountered, the feeling of going down this 'railway spine' was something that really resonated with me, since dealing with PTSD felt like going down a giant roller coaster of mental health symptoms - often opposing and clashing - ranging from depression to anxiety and emotional numbness to irritable panic attacks. And so 'Down the Railway Spine' stuck as the song title, since it best represented my own ongoing journey with the condition.

2. The song features a unique blend of synth-pop and game-style orchestral soundtrack music. How did you arrive at this distinctive sound, and what role does it play in conveying the emotions tied to your personal struggle with PTSD?

Yes, as you've highlighted, the original, cinematic version of the song features a unique combination of action-packed orchestration, experimental pop vocals and synth runs. This unique blend and its resulting intense sonic experience are really a musical expression of those emotionally opposing symptoms I've felt dealing with PTSD. Or in other words, the distinctive sound of the track is really just a musical translation of my journey confronting trauma. So, it's no surprise then those different moments of the track recall filmic boss battles. We've taken this idea a step further in our 3D animated music video, where the protagonist encounters three different monsters. But perhaps, an even darker musical translation than the original is the gritty live session version of the release, filled with stormy guitar riffs and solos and a few screams in the vocal. As you'll see in the video, the track has been transformed into a hardcore/gothic-rock power anthem, featuring notable Serbian female performers such as Aleksandra Stamenković (the frontwoman & guitarist of the speed/thrash metal band, Jenner), Marija Uzunovska (bassist of Nevreme & Noćni putnici), as well as Monika Pajazitović (pop/r’n’b artist, better known as La Monnique) and Tanja Marković (rap artist and DJ, better known as Cookbeat).

3. The 7/8 rhythm in the song adds an experimental edge. What motivated the choice of this rhythm, and how does it contribute to the overall narrative of the track?

I actually wrote the basic outline and lyrics of the song at my piano, almost in a single breath, following an episode of a panic attack. I started playing the song's basic chord progression in the standard 4/4, however, it really wasn't describing that almost shaking, panicky and breathless sensation I wanted to emphasize. Since I love playing around with irregular time signatures in my instrumental compositions, I then switched gears and wanted to see how that would work with a vocal track. So, after further experimentation, the 7/8 time signature seemed to really offer that exact sentiment I was looking for in the song - its pulsations were just perfect for the kind of neurotic narrative of combating trauma. Plus, 7/8 rhythms are often used in Balkan, which is a nice little nod to my cultural heritage.

4. Your lyrics and music describe dark moments of internal struggle with PTSD. How do you balance expressing vulnerability with maintaining a heroic undertone in the song?

So, 'Down the Railway Spine' definitely delves deep into some of my innermost dystopian moments. The lyrics and the music both describe those dark times when I'd been fighting a whirlpool of emotions in episodes of mental deterioration. Yet, as you mention, there is also a heroic undertone to the track, something undefeated, where I address those pieces of us that remain courageous and continue to defy even the eyes of the worst downward spirals. I think that this contrast between the dark and heroic parts stems from the chords themselves. Rather than playing straightforward A minor progressions throughout the track, the darkest bits delve into the Phrygian mode, which brings a lot of tension and calamity through its lowered 2nd degree, in this case the unexpected Bb in those 'whoa-oh' sections. Conversely, the brighter choruses in natural A minor/Aeolian mode offer a slight brightness in the 7ths, which contain a bit of an illusion towards C major. Though, perhaps the ending is the most interesting in this respect. Instead of the song ending on a more positive chorus, it ends with a coda of that darker 'whoa-oh' section. Ironically, I think the heroic undertone is displayed here the most, because it's like - whatever you throw at me next - even if it's more dark thoughts and dystopia - I don't care, I'm ready to take it and fight against it.



5. The 3D animated music video is a collaboration with animator Mihajlo Dragaš. How did the visual concept evolve, and what story are you trying to convey through the interstellar racer and the contrasting planets?

As someone who has synesthesia, for every song, I usually have some sort of a visual image in my head that comes alive while I compose. For 'Down the Railway Spine', since the beginning, whenever I played the basic chord progression, I saw this contrasting blue/red neon color palette in my head and the characters of a brother and sister surrounded by different monsters. The same as for our other animations, I'd then write a short concept document with a mood board and some story suggestions, which I would send to Mihajlo as an outline of my preliminary inspirations and how I envision the track. From there, he would reference the material and dream up his own interpretation of the song, coming up with really innovative ways to make it all alive through his own visual style, all in much better ways than I'd think are possible. I think he adds magic not only to the brilliant character designs, but also to the song narrative itself, elevating it with visuals that have a true emotional impact, as evident in the music video itself. As for the story we're trying to convey here, I believe it would be really too simplistic to say it's only about an interstellar racer fighting against three celestial monsters to save his younger sibling. Just like the track itself, in a way, it's about finding your inner hero and finding strength to stand up and fight against the impossible. And maybe even inspiring others to do so. Along these lines, there's this really beautiful scene near the end about sacrifice, which I think is the most poignant scene in the animation. It really touched me and I hope it will touch the audience as well. 

6. The animation pays homage to films like Tron and Blade Runner. How did these classics influence the visual identity of your music video, and what challenges did you face in bringing your vision to life?

I've asked my animator, Mihajlo, to answer this question, since he is the main architect of the music video's visual identity:

“Both Tron and Bladerunner were groundbreaking in terms of visual effects and they both had a strong visual identity that shaped the sci-fi image not only in film, but also in video games and comics. The always present neon glow and endless, often empty landscapes were a must-have in order to pay homage to these classics. One of the challenges I faced was creating a feeling of large spaces that surround the main character, dwarfing him and emphasizing the scale of his struggle to save his sister. So, it was not only a technical thing to achieve all this in a 3D software, but to also create an emotional impact for the viewer. Also, our main character travels through three different planets: one with large mountains, one with endless oceans, and one with fire and lava. All of them required a lot of attention to detail and variety of textures and effects, and finally unique monsters that try to stop him. It was a challenging video to create, but I think the final result holds all of these elements together, balancing the visual excitement with the emotional story.”

Finally, I’ll add that there is a bit of a visual Easter Egg with labyrinth/maze motives we added, alluding to the myth of Ariadne, Theseus and Minotaur (Ariadna is my real name).

7. The live session video transforms "Down the Railway Spine" into a hardcore/gothic-rock anthem. What inspired this reimagining, and how did the collaboration with notable Serbian female performers come about?

So, first of all, I love re-interpreting my own songs. If you look at my catalog, a lot of my songs have alternate versions that are quite different than the original. For example, the live version for 'A Hint of Pink' was shot at the UNESCO site, Felix Romuliana, which brought about the idea for me to arrange it in the site-specific manner, with the string quartet and davul drum sounding like ancient instruments. For 'Down the Railway Spine', I could sense that it would work really well in the hardcore/gothic style, since the Phrygian ostinatos in the 'whoa-oh' section sound like they could be great guitar riffs. At the time though, I didn't really know any musicians that play in this genre, as my previous songs were softer and the live sessions were more in the indie style.

However, I was selected to be a mentor in this project called 'Rock Camp for Girls' by the wonderful Femix organization, which works to help empower and affirm female artists in Serbia. While I was the mentor for music production for young girls aged 11-14, I had an amazing opportunity to meet other incredible mentors, who were notable female performers in bass, guitar, etc. I approached them about this live session and was over the moon with how they interpreted the song. Aleksandra Stamenković (the frontwoman & guitarist of the speed/thrash metal band, Jenner), for example, infused the song with these flaming guitar riffs and solos that gave the song even more edge, as well as intensifying the Balkan flavor of certain sections through her creative use of Phrygian musical motifs. Meanwhile, the low-end bass runs by Marija Uzunovska (bassist of Nevreme & Noćni putnici) helped glue and solidify all the instruments together. I also have to thank the backing vocals, Monika Pajazitović (pop/r’n’b artist, better known as La Monnique) and Tanja Marković (rap artist and DJ, better known as Cookbeat), who did a wonderful job on harmonies and vocal chops. It was really an honour to work together with all these amazing female performers and I'm glad that this version in particular will come out on 8th March, the Internation Women's Day - girl power! Ha ha.

8. Your music has been described as sitting between the witchy edges of Kate Bush and the ethereal faun form of artists like Goldfrapp. How do these comparisons resonate with your musical identity, and who are your primary musical influences?

Interestingly, because my music has quite divergent themes with a considerable array of distinct musical genres, I felt like there needed to be an element that was going to fuse all the works and audiovisual realms together. Since each song is set in a different 'realm', I ended up creating this punny witchy figure to unite my works - 'Realma'. As you mention, I was inspired by the alter egos of David Bowie and St Vincent, as well as the ethereal faun forms of artists like Goldfrapp, Kate Bush, Mitski and Bjork, so that ‘Realma’ ended up being this omnipresent witchy persona with the power to peek into these different storyworlds of my songs. Not unlike a sorceress gazing towards different dimensions reflected in her crystals. However, it's really hard to pinpoint any primary musical influences, since I often get told that my music sounds nothing like what is out there. Rather, there are more song-specific influences... For example, the instrumental of my film-noir single 'Wandering' is inspired by classic film scores by Bernard Herrmann, as well as more pop-y noir tracks by Portishead and Hooverphonics. Meanwhile, my third single 'Ashgrey Butterfly' is closer to Disney musical numbers in its dense orchestration and the coming-of-age vibe. On the other hand, my newest single 'Down the Railway Spine' is set in an action style more akin to video game soundtracks like League of Legends, though much more experimental with the unusual 7/8 rhythm pulsating throughout. However, while I can't really say there are general primary influences across all my songs, I will say the Gorillaz really helped me embrace the idea of utilizing animation and music video characters to start crafting my own audiovisual universe.

9. Your artistic approach is described as not conforming to the rules of traditional contemporary music. Can you elaborate on how you navigate this non-conformity and what it means for your creative process?

I would say more than anything, it's just who I am. I am simply eclectic, experimental, nomadic and eccentric in my artistic approach, because it's also a part of my identity. First of all, I grew up in two distinct cultural environments – China and Serbia, where I soaked in various folkloric/ethnic influences. At the same time, my parents always loved listening to popular music, jazz, country, rock and many more genres at home. My mum is also an avid theatre lover, so she took me to all sorts of concerts, theatre, opera and ballet shows. And growing up, I took classes in everything from classical painting, stone carving, scuba diving, martial arts, dance, circus, etc. - you name it! Later, I studied film & drama at uni in the UK, where I took further workshops in physical theatre, mime, musical theatre, Laban, Checkov and similar. So, naturally, I have my family upbringing to thank for, in terms of this instinctive appreciation of all arts and music genres. In a way, it would be very hard if this didn't translate in my creative output as well - I simply don't see myself ever writing typical music. It's probably due to this strong experimental and multi-genre edge I mentioned I carry as an artist and person. Nonetheless, I do think there are certain elements that I consider very classical in my approach to writing songs/compositions, so it's almost like my music sits on this weird, paradoxical border between neo-classicism and nonconformity. All in all, this unique approach definitely makes my music niche and not for everyone. But if you're a lost soul like me, who enjoys daydreaming through the journey different artworks can bring, I'm certain you'll find something in my music or music videos/live sessions to like.

10. Your animated music videos have been featured in international film festivals. How does the visual component complement your music, and what role does it play in enhancing the overall experience for your audience?

I would say the visual component is very integral to my music. There is an underlying thread in my artistic process, which is the synesthesia I've mentioned. I can’t ever only listen to music. I experience it alongside colours, shapes, smell, and various other physical sensations, which always end up as main driving forces that push me to write and produce my works. For example, when I started playing the F minor chord progression of my first single, ‘A Hint of Pink’, it sounded like this drenching, subtle pink color and I was surrounded by this foggy and cold sensation, seeing a white wolf staring at its own reflection. For my theatrical follow-up ‘Wandering’, the basic melody I had in F# minor sounded like red and in combination with the dissonant noir-jazz chords, I felt smoke around me, seeing a femme-fatale-like lady in red, smoking and contemplating about revenge. If you’ve seen the animated music videos, you’ll definitely recognise these scenes. Likewise for my newest song 'Down the Railway Spine', I've already mentioned how whenever I played the A minor progressions, I've had this colour palette of neon red & blue surrounding the main characters in my head. In fact, my songs are so intertwined with their storyworlds, that I really can't hear them without seeing these images first. That's why I'm so grateful that I started collaborating with the wonderful artist and animator that Mihajlo Dragaš is, because he not only manages to understand the different sensibilities of each song, but also manages to build upon them and elevate them further through his own visual style and narration. Overall, I really recommend people to watch these animations, because the music and the visuals both complement one another and provide unique layers for analysis and questions to ponder upon.

11. Your performances have received positive reviews at festivals like Femix and BeFem. How do you approach live performances, and what do you aim to convey to your audience through your stage presence?

I really want my live performances to be immersive audiovisual experiences that surround the audience and draws them deeper into the different stories and meanings that my songs bring. Though it's tough, because to push that idea to the maximum certainly entails financial backing that is outside of the scopes I can personally provide at the moment. For example, my ideal show would involve a live orchestra too, but one can always dream, right? For now, I really enjoy writing arrangements for smaller ensembles and thinking of ways to bring innovative things for performers to do even in these more compact performances. As of now, we're performing with the animations, which the audience really seems to like. There are also scant opportunities to perform as of yet and that's why I try to make every performance count and give it my all. Hopefully with time, we'll slowly reach a larger audience and more frequent performances. But you have to start somewhere, right?

12. Your music has entered the Top 3 semifinals in the MArte Live European art & music competition. How do you perceive recognition and awards in the music industry, and what impact do they have on your artistic journey?

I think it's amazing and I'm really glad the jury of MArte Live recognized the artistic flare in my music and our music videos. I'm truly grateful for that. However, while it's nice to be recognized, it's not the reason why I create. I mean, of course, all artists dream of prestigious awards, but I'm more focused on the capacity to make music that allows me to question, explore and critique different social phenomena, circumstances, etc. Because of how much music personally helped me make a spiritual and psychological recovery, even through my darkest times and the loss of my identity, I believe it has the potential to be an empowering & transformative force in anyone’s life. This is what I aspire to and want my musical output to reflect - not a desire for recognition, but a desire to help someone, to be a social or spiritual vehicle in someone's life. I think that's the most important thing, because awards, after all, much like streams and views, are external things and validations that just come and go. Music is something that stays with us at the end of the day, it lies within us.

13. You're building a multi-genre audiovisual universe called Realmaverse. Can you share your vision for this project and how you plan to extend it into different mediums like comics, tabletop RPG, and video games?

Yeah, so I’m currently working on the exciting possibilities of expanding each realm of my audiovisual universe into a powerful franchise and brand – that is, I see a true potential in expanding these animated stories into larger comic and table top/video game mediums. Not unlike Marvel or Disney, just more experimental and alternative, I guess, ha ha. I love worldbuilding, so I really enjoy it. At the moment, it's more of a research/writing phase. For example, I'm currently learning different worldbuilding and writing methods and I enrolled in a video game design course. I'll also launch a webstore at some point, which I’m really excited about. I’m currently collaborating with some amazing graphic designers to create artistic merch, not unlike the creative packaging used by BTS in their inventive lyric booklets and DPR in their album packaging. So yeah, lots of stuff happening, stay tuned!

14. As an artist with a diverse background, combining Serbian and Chinese influences, how does your cultural heritage contribute to the unique blend of themes and styles in your music?

So yeah, I'm half-Serbian and half-Chinese. I grew up in both countries and was lucky enough to have an amazing family that allowed me to cultivate my artistic skills and passions from early on. From music, oil painting and classical drawing to acting and dance classes, I was able to really delve into arts and creativity in both places. Though it's not something that comes up directly, certain cultural elements do pop up here and there in my creative output - like the 7/8 rhythm in 'Down the Railway Spine' or the ethnical/nomadic influences heard in the vocals of 'A Hint of Pink'. It's very, very subtle and I definitely don't try to force these elements of my cultural heritage, but I welcome them whenever they arise instinctively, often in unusual ways. And though seemingly elusive, they are an important part of my art and an integral part of who I am both as an artist and a person. I'm super grateful for that.

Realma (realmaverse.com)

Realma - Down the Railway Spine (Official Animated Music Video) (youtube.com)

Musique | Realma (bandcamp.com)

Realma (@realma_music) • Photos et vidéos Instagram


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